23rd May, 2013 BACK TO ALL PODCASTS

This week we’re comparing the two broadest styles of property investment: Buy To Let (BTL) and Buy To Sell (BTS). We bang on about the joys of BTL so much you’d be forgiven for thinking it’s illegal to sell a house once you’ve bought it – so can we conceal our biases for an entire episode?

So, here are the well-worn advantages of buying to let:

Cash flow: If you get your sums right, you end up with extra money in your bank account every month.

You hold an asset: If something’s making you money, why would you sell it? As well as the rent, you can watch the value go up over the years.

It’s (relatively) low risk: We talked about property disasters last week, but if you take appropriate steps to mitigate your risk there’s not that much that can go horribly, expensively wrong.

You can set and forget: You can be more hands-on if you want, but it’s also possible to employ a managing agent and forget all about it until the money turns up in your account.

But there are drawbacks too, of course:

It’s very much Get Rich Slow: You’ll make steady money, but if you want to (for example) replace your employment income overnight, it’s not going to happen.

There are possible tenant issues: If you get a bad tenant, it can be a huge headache – you can do your best to prevent it, but it’s always a possibility.

There will be long-term maintenance issues: If you hold a property for long enough, something will go wrong – whether it’s with the roof, the boiler, or something less dramatic.

You’re tying up your cash: Unless you very deliberately set out with a strategy to pull your deposit back out (which is never guaranteed), you’ll end up having to put a lot of money into each deal. When house prices are relatively flat, it’s a cash-intensive strategy.

So, what are the advantages of buying to sell?

You can make a lot of money very quickly. You can make the equivalent of several years’ worth of net rental income instantly if you do everything right and manage to find a buyer willing to pay the price you want.

Sell and forget: No maintenance issues, no pesky tenants…just cash in the bank and no more worries!

But there are drawbacks to buying to sell too:

You don’t hold an asset: Which means no ongoing cashflow, and no capital gains – you get a quick injection of cash, then that’s it.

The risk is higher: If you’re refurbing, you might discover complications that dramatically increase your budget. Then when you come to sell, you might not be able to find a buyer – which leaves you absorbing all the finance and ownership costs while your property sits empty.

Our conclusion? As always, it depends on your goals. We personally love BTL, but buying to sell might be the most effective way of getting you to where you need to be.

The important thing is not to jump in wanting to make a quick buck. Those who lose money quickest are usually those who’re trying to make it quickest.

Resource of the week

Rob D got iPhone jealousy when Rob B recommended the 30/30 App – a tool that allows you to stack your tasks, then gives you a countdown timer that helps you to focus while you allocate time to each one.

It’s a variation of the Pomodoro Technique, which Rob D wrote about here. If you’re an Android user we don’t know of an alternative as beautiful as 30/30, but Rob D uses this free Android pomodoro timer.

This week’s news

The Daily Telegraph published research into the cheapest, family-friendly areas in the UK – looking at crime, schools, and the availability of family homes.

Rob B noted that “good areas” and “bad areas” can be very close together – South Northamptonshire and Northampton, for example. It all comes down to the fundamentals we discussed in Episode 6 – transport links, schools, and so on.

Mentions and shout-outs

Rob B mentioned that he’d been interviewed about student pods as an investment. There have been bad news stories recently about this whole investment class, as this Property Tribes thread reveals. Rob saw it coming, writing in October 2012 about why his company refused to sell them, despite the big commissions they could make.

And as we were talking about buying to sell this week, we couldn’t restrain ourselves from mentioning Sarah Beeny, of course. We’ll have to limit ourselves to namechecking her every fourth episode, or it’s going to start getting a bit creepy.

Tell us what you thought of the show!

Which investment approach to you lean towards, and why? Have you ever had any particularly good or bad experiences by dabbling outside your comfort zone?

Did we miss anything out, or was there a part of the show you particularly enjoyed?

Just let us know by leaving a comment below!

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Full transcript

Ric:                                         Welcome to the property podcast, the home of news and debate about building long term wealth with property investments for beginners and experts alike. Now for your hosts, a host so indispensable we packed a spare, it’s Rob and Rob.

Rob Bence:                         Welcome to the Property Podcast we are at Episode 10, we’ve made double figures. I am Rob Bence as always, and always with me is Rob Dix. Good morning Rob, how are you today?

Rob Dix:                               Good morning Rob, pretty good, thank you, how’s the things with you?

Rob Bence:                         I am superb, thank you very much. Rob, what have we got coming up today?

Rob Dix:                               Well, we have got a great episode as always. We again to start off by revealing the best value places to live in the U.K. Our topic of the weeks this week is “Buy to Let vs. Buy to Sell.” We talked about Buy to let the majority of the time, but buy to sell could be a great strategy for helping you to reach your goals depending on what your goals are, of course.

We are going to be running through the pros and the cons of each and then we are going to finish off by talking about productivity hack that we have  both implemented that we reckon will help you to get dramatically more done each day.

Rob Bence:                         Yes, we are talking about before we started recording; Rob’s pretty geeky on this one as you would expect. Stick around; listen for that one because you certainly will improve your productivity if you use this hack.

As always, we would like to start off this show by thanking all our loyal listeners and a round of applause for the following because we’ve had some more five star reviews, Rob.

First off thepropertyfox, “This podcast offer some very good advice to someone like me that needs to starting out. I look forward to subsequent podcasts and the advice I gain from them. Keep up the good work Rob and Rob.”

AWJ says, “A worthwhile podcast with UK content, good up to date UK content for people interested in property.

[0:01:45] says, “Just listened to your first podcast, looking forward in catching them all. Great start!”  Thank you very much!

And [0:01:54], great name, says, “Great podcast, this is thought provoking and informative. I look forward to following this as it develops and I can develop my business.” Great reviews! Thank you very,very much!

As always, if you are enjoying the show, we don’t take your support for granted, but we’d love it if you could leave as a review because Itunes really appreciate it if we got reviews and bump us up the chart. It’s to help other people to find this, so please keep leaving reviews, we do appreciate it.  And some of the words we had the last few weeks have been fantastic. Keep up the work guys, we thank you for leaving reviews, please continue to do so.

Rob Dix:                               Please do. Alright, let’s get moving on. Rob, what you have been up to this week?

Rob Bence:                         Well, besides lots of client meetings which I always enjoy, one of them particularly went for 2 and a half hours and I normally schedule 2 hours to be safe, but they have many great questions that I just can’t on going and going. But no complaints, it was really enjoyable.

I also spoke to a reporter from the Investor Chronicle which is owned by the Financial Times this week. He called me up and got in touch because he found an article I wrote on student [0:02:59] over a year ago. It sort of gave a bit of a caution on them that you may want to avoid and I certainly give the reasons why we don’t sell them, our RMP property. Even though their commissions on them are fantastic, we don’t believe in them. I put an article together and he stumbled across as you do when a student’s doing some research.  And subsequently there’s also been a bit of a fret on property tribes recently which really gain a momentum where people coming out and go to work and say they will “I lost money on this, or I have been not delivered what I am supposed to, I am not getting the returns I was expecting.”  I link to the article I wrote and I link to the fret on property tribes as well, which is very interesting. When the article comes out I’ll certainly let everyone know so you can have a look. That was a very interesting conversation. What you have been up to Rob?

Rob Dix:                               Well, I am still in Madrid this week and I’ve been doing a bit of goal settingactually.  We bang on about goals the whole time. And I haven’t revisited mine for quite a while, so I’ve been caught a bit thinking about my strategy in doing the planning, teaching out over that and kind of preparing to have a couple of conversations with my broker and people like that about what my next move will going to be.

I have also been reading a very great book called: “Anti fragile” by Nicholas Taleb. He is the guy who kind of soar the financial crash coming and make a lot of money in the process and then he wrote a book called: “Black Swan” which became a quite well known. It is a really huge book full of massive ideas that makes you think about a lot of some things in life very differently. There is some real lessons in property investment in there around how can you position yourself to benefit from the upside of uncertainty and be less vulnerable to changes in the market and all that kind of things.

At some point when I fully work it all on my mind, I am going to be doing a blog post about some of that stuff up. I find it really interesting to get some new ideas For property investments from a book that really had nothing to do with it but it’s nice to king of take the lessons and extrapolate.

Rob Bence:                         That’s going to my read list even.  It sounds like a good book.  I had that guys on the Lifestyle Business podcast talking about that book too.

Rob Dix:                               Clear diary for the next couple of weeks, it’s bloody long.  But it’s worth it, it’s really interesting.

Rob Bence:                         Great! We’ll let into that show notes, if anybody wants to get a copy you can go to our show notes which of course will be thepropertypodcast/10 that is a long  way with the articles we’ve entered today that you will be able to find.

Rob Dix:                               Well, let’s get moving on to the news this week then. Shall we?

Rob Bence:                         Well, interesting article because we can go to the main sort of headlines.  They can be little but dulling, probably you already heard about them. So, if we could dig up of some unique stories, we’d like to do so, but this one is quite unique. It’s an article that was put together by the Telegraph and it was looking at areas that offer the best value to live. So, how they have done it, is that they look at education levels in the area, the crime rates, and looked at the property prices. They have compared them all together in trying to find the best value areas to achieve the perfect living environment.

It proves some interesting data.  What I found particularly interesting is one area that can be ranked really highly can be neighbouring the area that’s ranked very low. For example, South and North Hamptonshire was 2 out of 346, ranked very, very well but Northampton was 298 out of 346 which is I have seen next door. If you are in a good area it does mean not the person down the road necessarily is. And of course you always look to where you have lived or where you are currently living. So, I used to live in a place called [0:06:23] for long proportion of my life and that is 8 out of 346 and that was quite interesting. And some urban which I regularly bang on about, even though the property prices are very high there compared to some other areas that also ranked really well. I think it came in the top twenty.  So, it’s really good.  It’s really interesting.  We’ll link it to show notes, but it’s certainly worth having a look and checking out your area and see how it’s doing.

Rob Dix:                               What is find really interesting about it is that it kind of ties into the fundamentals that we are talking about in Episode 6 in the topic of “Hot Spots”. A lot of areas in there seem to tick the box for transport links because they are close to big centres of employment.  Then there are very good schools, crime is low, it is all that kind of fundamentals stuff.  Because they are particularly talking about families in this survey, it means this could be areas to look at if your strategy goals are for family tenants who tend to stay for a long time because obviously there are areas that are on demand.  And maybe there are potential for capital growth if they are of relatively cheap compared to other areas. But it just goes to show you that people want to live where the fundamental is strong.  It’s just that same old, same old really.  It is another way of looking of the same topic.

Let’s get moving on to the topic of the week which this week sees us comparing “Buy to Let VS Buy to sell.”  Buy to Let does not need much of introduction.  It is what we talk about the whole time which is buying properties, making money of it every month, seeing how its value go up over time and you can either sell it on for a big, big profit way into the future or you can just hang on to it, succeed the money forever and let the money pay for your pension and pass it on to your kids.  As you can tell, we are big fans of that approach.

But there is also “Buy to sell” which in complete contrast when you buy something purely with the view that you want to sell it on for profit almost immediately. Awhile ago, few years ago, that could have been buying something of someone he needed to sell quickly for a discount for what it’s worth, then immediately selling it on to someone else to make a bit of money. Nowadays that is not so easy for various reasons.  It now pretty much involves adding value in some way.  Buying a property and extending it or refurbing it, or doing something that means that it’s going to come more money. For example you might buy a property for 100,000, spend 20,000 on it and then sell it on 450,000 pocketing an immediate profit of 30,000.

You can already tell that they are very different in terms of the rewards and the risks, so we are just going to run through the pros and cons of each approach. To start with, let’s go over Buy to Let quickly because that is something that listeners are probably familiar with and we talked about that a lot.  Let’s just talk about the advantages of the Buy to Let approach, Rob.

Rob Bence:                         The first thing that I have on the list here is the Cash Flow. So, one of the pros of investing in Buy to Let or using that as your strategy is that once you set your property up, you are going to receive a cash flow month in, month out. You always know that there’s income coming in as long as your tenants are behaving and it’s not going to change.  That’s the whole point of the strategy is that you are going to receive an income from day one onwards.

And linked to that because you are receiving that income, you’re then holding on to the asset rather than letting it go. You are keeping it in your portfolio, you are receiving that income and the property values over time will increase and you have got an asset there as well. At your bonus, you have got an asset that is paying you.  That is why we are attracted to Buy to Let. But there are other things as well that makes it positive as a strategy. What have you got Rob?

Rob Dix:                               Of this one, it’s a pretty low risk approach. If you get your numbers right and you buy property on the first place, last week we talked about property disasters. We talked about the things that can go wrong.  But we also show that there are some very simple stuff that you can do to mitigate that risk.  So all in all, you have got the property.  It is if you buy it at a good price and you got tenants paying you rent, then there is not a whole lot that can go wrong with it over the long turn. That’s a low risk of this type of investment and it is also can be a low effort investment if you want it to be. Some people enjoy being hands on and attending to repairs themselves and having interactions with the tenants. But if you want to, you can just buy it per a managing agent in charge and forget all about it until the money hits your bank account every month. It is potentially a low risk and low effort investment if you want it to be. They are the pros of Buy to Let.  But fans though we are; we have to admit that there are drawbacks as well, off course.

Rob Bence:                         Of course there are, there is no perfect investments.

What are the drawbacks? Well, the first one is this, “No quick gains” in Buy to Let. It is not a get rich quick strategy. Although some people would tell you differently, it really is not. It’s all about the long term, if you have got a sensible approach and you set your portfolio the right way although in the long term you can do very well. But the drawbacks is I suppose if you can see it that way, is that you are not going to be rich quick from it. That is something to consider.

The other thing is you may have possible tenant issues.  Because you hold on to the property from time to time there is a chance that you may have tenant issues. Whether they are misbehaving or they are having some problems in general. Now, I refer back to the podcast we’ve just done recently, the Property Disasters podcast, so you can learn how to avoid or potentially avoid those things going wrong. Even if you put the measures in place to prevent it, there is no 100% guarantee that you will never get tenant issues. So you can drastically reduce your chances but still, something may happen. So, that’s something that you might have to consider when you do Buy to Let as a strategy.

Rob Dix:                               Related to the tenant issues I suppose, long term maintenance issues.  If you hold property for long enough things will go wrong. The expensive one is boilers I suppose, boilers will blow of every so often and it will cost you money. But then there’s just things like over the years there is a potential for dampers, potential for needing rewire and there’s all kinds of stuff.  And even just holding it for a long time every so many years the carpets will need replacing, kitchen needs replacing.  That just means that they are  going to be a cost.   You can patch them in of course. But you just never know when a maintenance issue is going to crop up including the unexpected ones like the roof suddenly spring a leak or something.

As well as that, because it is a long term thing, you are potentially going to end up having being cash tied up in the property.   There are ways around this.  You can by a certain ways which we will be talking about in the future pod casts where you can avoid ending up with your cash tied up. But in theory at least, even if you’re buying with a mortgage you are going to have to fund about 25% of the purchase pricing cash and that’s cash that you’re potentially not going to be able to get out. If you only got have enough money to put into one property once you bought it, you are a bit stuck and you can’t go on and buy anymore.  Though there are ways around it.  It is basically a cash intensive style of investing.

They are the pros and the cons of Buy to Let. So let’s move on to talking about Buy to Sell.  And Rob, maybe you could talk about the benefits of that approach?

Rob Bence:                         Of course, now, as we have said at the top of the show neither of us do this strategy.  The queen of this strategy of course its Sarah Beeny.  Refer about to her if you want the expert’s view.  But we know enough to give you the pros and cons.

The pros, well you can make a large amount of money from Buy to Sell strategy.  If you take a property that you got for a good price that may be distressed in condition, you add value to it, you know the market well, you do the property up, you may be able to sell it for a quick profit. It is possible and some people do achieve that.  So you can make more money much more quickly than Buy to Let in a short period of time. That is the one of the big plusses and probably the biggest reason why people are drawn to Buy to Sell.

The other reason is that, once you sold the property, you wash your hands with it.  So, you don’t have to worry about the tenant issues or the property in 10 years’ time or need them more work. You have done your job, you have your money and you have walked away. You sell and you forget.

Two really big plus points to the Buy to Sell strategy. However, as you would expect, of course there are potential cons as well.  Rob do you want to look at those and what the potential issues are.

Rob Dix:                               One big con which could be pro or a con depending on how you look at it, but it’s quite high risk. It is an exciting thing, it’s exciting to your gain.  That is why you can’t get many rep TV property programs where someone buys the house and sits there and buy the rent roll in for 30 years. It is not very exciting to watch.  That is why it all tends to be about buying at auction and doing up and selling on the rest of it.

Personally, I don’t like excitement when it comes to property. I like to know exactly what I am going to get into and what my reward is and just sit there. If you are into excitement, that’s great! But the fact is it is a high risk endeavour.  And in the current market, the risk is around being able to sell it on.  Because if you got a property and you’ve done whatever you are going to do it and then you can’t find a buyer for it, then you are stuck there with an empty property that you don’t want to tenant because someone could by it any minute. You put all this money into, you got your money tied up and you are paying interest in your mortgage or you’re bridging or whatever else. You got all these fees that are coming out and there’s nothing that you can do about it. That is one risk, there is also of course the risk of that the work that you are planning to do to it is a little bit tougher than your first thought. Refurbs are not easy at all if you are not experienced. It is easy to think, “I’ll just go in and I’ll do this and I move this wall, do this and then the other.” When you start stripping things away, you can find more problems that you are unaware of that are going to kind eat into your profit and increasingly tip you into a lost if you all get these extra costs that you weren’t bargaining for.

There is also the problem if you see as such that you are not holding into an asset. So, you bought a property that if you kept hold of it, it will go up in value over the years and which provide you an income.  But you don’t have that so you pass that to someone else and you are back to where you started hopefully with a quick more in your pocket.

Related to that, it is the cash flow thing. If the property is not going to be providing you with the monthly income for years to come, you are going to get money in your pocket now which is great.  But you get that money, pay tax on it and whatever is left you got to start it all again. If Buy to Sell is all you do, it means that your cash flow is pretty lumpy.  You have going to make an effort and it is not the kind of thing where you can just sit back. I am worried though I have listed too many cons now; I have not made it as balance as we should have done that.

Rob Bence:                         I’m going to probably to add to it that; but I’ll try to balance though afterwards. Now the lovely Sarah Beeny…

Rob Dix:                               Makes sense.

Rob Bence:                         We do love her.  The thing you have to remember with the show is that they pack in a whole lifetime of the journey within an hour. When you sit in at home in your nice warm house and you are watching people go for the stress and the trauma then hopefully at the end of the victory of the profit they have made, it’s all done within 60 minutes. When you do it, and if you have never done this before then, it’s going to take a lot longer than 60 minutes. That sounds obvious but you kind of forget how much work you do need to put into it. Just remember, that it is not supposed to be taken at home lightly.

And I’ve got great example of this.  I’ve got a client who was not a client at first, he sort of sought to me for some advise.  He went away to do refurbs that he’s never done it before and he got a bulk deal on a load on kitchen so I think it’s 7 or 8.  And he bulked and bulked and he got a cracking deal.  And he did his first refurb and it takes so much time and effort he just thought “never again”.  And he flips to But to Let.  He’s now got 7 kitchens in his carriage and his wife is not the happiest lady because all the garbage spaces was taken up by unused kitchen.

If it is for you, I know the people who do execute the strategy well; they absolutely love what they do. If you are going to do it make sure, as with any investments strategy, put your research in. You make sure that it is the right strategy for you for you to hit your goals and it can be an effective strategy. It’s not to say that Buy to Let is the way to go for everyone, it’s not. So,  that is why you want to consult to But to Sell.  You can make good money from it but there are risks, there are downsides.  So, just to weigh it all up when you’re making your decision on what to do.

Rob Dix:                               Yes, I think the key thing to be aware of is that you just can’t be motivated purely by greed.  You can’t just, “There’s opportunity to make 20 grand really quickly,” because it is more difficult and it  is more had work than it looks. There’s a lady I’ve just spoken to one with my other pod cast who’s been doing refurbs for 30 years and she is absolutely loves doing it and she’s got it down to fine arts.  She’s got a minimal risk now because she’s kind of see everything and foresee all the problems before they come up.

And so, It can be a brilliant strategy.  It’s just not something to dive into thinking that you can make a few quick quickly and hopefully that kind of view as prevalent as it was in the peak of all the housing mania.

Basically, you just are going to have a plan B. If you are buying to sell and you just need to be aware that if you can’t sell it on, then you might have to make the numbers work for Buy to Let instead of holding onto it instead. It’s good to be aware of all the different ways of doing things.  So if a deal comes up and if it doesn’t work for your primary strategy, you can kind of look at it, “Yeah, maybe  I can buy it and sell it on,” if you are willing to take on the risk. As you say Rob, it just depends on your goals.  You’ve got to have a plan in place to be able to assess whether any particular strategy will get you there.

Rob Bence:                         I think you have summed it up perfectly Rob, because as you have said then the lady you interviewed has been doing it for 30 years.  So her mind-set, her motivation isn’t get rich quick. I think, if you are go into Buy to Sell strategy with a get rich quick mind set, you probably going to fail. You need to look at this as a long term thing.  Even if you can have some lot of cash in short periods, if you go to the quick way you’re probably the person who falls flat on the face unfortunately. The people who seem to lose their money the quickest in property are the people who are trying to make the money the quickest.  You can make great money but you just need a sensible approach.

Rob Dix:                               Well, we love to hear your experience as well with this.  If you have got  a firm view about whether you prefer Buy to Let or Buy to Sell or if you predominantly use one and you have to dabble with the other and you want to let us know how it went, we’d to love to hear how it works out for you.  So do leave us a comment. You can go over to our blog at thepropertypdcast.com leave a comment onto the show notes for this episode and we’d to love to hear your discussions and  we could read any comments in the future episodes.

Rob Bence:                         So, resource of the week and I know from your comments that this is a popular part of the show so we don’t want to let you down.   I think we’ve got a good one for you again.

This week, its and app for the iPhone or the iPads. Now I use it some for my iPad’s and it is really good. It is called a 30/30 App. Of course we’ll link to it in the show notes, so go to thepropertypodcast.com/10 and you can see the app there. But this app is really good, so let me explain how it works. What you do is to list your tasks; you list it all that you want to tackle with.  And when you list them, you allocate the time that you want to dedicate to that task. If you really like me, you will set you’re to do list up and suddenly you will start working for that and an obstruction will come in. Whether it is an email, phone call, somebody wants to talk to you; it could be one of a hundred things that you can easily get distracted. The great thing of this app is it really keeps you focused.  If you have allocated a certain time frame to a task and that task is taking the way in front of you.  It’s so much you see as a challenge to make sure it is complete. And actually what I do if I complete it earlier, I give myself the extra minutes as a little break to do some bits of pieces I need to do or more probably than that or get a cup of tea. It’s a great app, have a look, it’s really useful. I believe it is still free they are also some access that you can pay for but the core app is free so have a look in the iTunes store. It is really useful and I use it a lot, it’s a great tool.

Rob Dix:                               I am not an iPhone user but I feeling a bit jealous now so just been looking at the site for the app it does that really, really very great. There is similar stuff available for android; I’ve got one called Clockwork Tomato which achieves roughly the same thing but it doesn’t look like it got as many features and it doesn’t look as pretty either.

Essentially what this app allows you to do is use something which is Promodoro Technique, which I am a bit obsessed with and it is basically all about focusing on one task.  Multi-tasking really is a myth.   It is not possible to do multiple task do loads of things at once and be really effective. You can get so much more if you just sequence do one thing then the next then the next. The idea with the Promodoro technique is you set the time for 25 minutes, you do one task for 25 minutes and you give yourself 5 minutes after recover take a walk around you or whatever you want. Then 25 minutes back on task for the next task and keep going like that. But sort of seeing the clock ticking down it really makes you realize you meant to doing one thing, focus on that thing, you put your phone on silence, shut down your emails, and whatever else. You will be absolutely amazed with how much you can get in 25 minutes if you just do that one thing.  And this App is just one way of helping you do that really. To take away from all this is whether you use technology to enable or not.

Focus is really, really powerful thing. We were talking just before the show on how you can get distracted and you could be browsing for about half an hour before you realize you have done it. That’s a real pitfall of doing the job that you love. Am I working right now or this is play? But I am telling you by focusing it, you can kind of  help mitigate against to some of that temptation.

Rob Bence:                         Rob puts a great blog together on the Promodoro technique as well.  I know a lot of successful people who use that technique. So, we link to that blog to the show notes as well, we link to the App, we link App in the android store as well. If you have got an iPhone, go and download it, go try the technique out because I’m convinced that it can make a big difference to your day to day activities in life. So, have a look, download it and let’s see how you got on.

Robe Dix:                            Rob I think the show has been running for about 25 minutes so we should give people a break if we’re going to be doing the Promodoro method. That was the worst thing I could ever done

Rob Bence:                         I was quite impressed for that Rob.

Rob Dix:                               That does wrap it up for this week. So, again thank you very much for listening do leave us a review on iTunes if you enjoyed it.  Let us see what you think, anything that you been able to use, anything that you like us to talk about in the future.

Reviews are really helpful in helping other people to find the shows so please again go ahead and do that if you enjoy the show.  Next week we are going to be talking about how to build your Property Team.

Rob Bence:                         Yes, I am looking forward to that episode.  Property investment is not just one aspect.  You should not be relying on just one person to help you.  You can build a team of people who can help accelerate your success. So next week, we are going to cover how we set up our teams, so we are going to give you direct examples of what we have done to build our teams around this so you could then replicate that and be successful building your own and which therefore should set your way on to success.

Rob Dix:                               Great stuff! We will look forward to that and we will see you next week.

Rob Bence:                         Right, we should have a five minute break Rob, let’s go.  Bye everyone.

Ric:                                         Thank you for listening to property podcast. Don’t forget to check out the show notes and join the mailing list at the propertypodcast.com